Topton N5105 based system

[meyergru]

Just my quick findings about this Topton system which seems quite interesting considering it is kind of in-between readily available J4125-based and non-available so far Elkheart Ridge-based x64 boxes. It is ~30% faster than a J4125.

The system has some flaws that CAN be fixed. You can read about this here (unter the second heading).

[nikkon]

you can look at Qotom as well
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003913498579.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51ea5086KRgiRI&algo_pvid=78642af0-9b33-4158-89d4-2e6c98f44f27&algo_exp_id=78642af0-9b33-4158-89d4-2e6c98f44f27-7&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000027454036325%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B163.38%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BEUR%3Bsearch-mainSearch

I use one with i3 and runs perfectly

[meyergru]

I know, I have another J4125-based system.

Matter-of-fact this is meant more as a warning to the extent that:

1. N5105 hash more 30% performance, but uses 40% more power than a J4125 (despite the TDP claims showing similar values). This makes it difficult to suggest for a passive system of that size.

2. The Topton box has massive production flaws w/r to cooling as of now, set aside the abysmal quality of the power supply.

[beardedhustler]

Since you've had the device for some months now, any experiences to share? Considering buying a similar device, e.g. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004360185218.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.23.757074ae61Kzl7&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24285.80%21US%20%24151.47%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a556716546898402236176eb15b%2112000028899902859%21sh&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu

Also, how is the tdp/power usage with general use?

Not sure what the main differences are between these with a console port and no VGA, compared to the one you linked to.

[meyergru]

I reduced maximum power draw via some BIOS settings. My unit has stability problems when I enable anything lower than C1, so that limits idle power reduction.

There is a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUuaAPG0PxU) about my specific Topton unit which comes much to the same conclusion as myself: N5105 has ~30% more performance at 70% more power draw (see the discussion below the video as well). Since even a J4125-based system is sufficient for 2.5 GBit/s, I would not buy one of these again but one with a J4125 which you can get cheap now.

Matter-of-fact, the unit you have linked to is no longer available. Topton, like other chinese vendors, buys these units from whereever they can get them and it is hard to even compare one of the same kind a few weeks after. I had the same experience with HUNSN, where one unit had a completely different mainboard than another one I bought two months earlier. Even their description was wrong (saying it had 2 SODIMM slots while there was only one).

Also, the quality of some components is often abysmal, like the cooling in my unit.

[BrakkeBezem]

I bought one of those HSIPC J4125 before, but send it back because it would throttle the CPU when there was any activity and the temperature would go up to a 100 degrees Celcius. The build quality is not very amazing. I read that you can get it to cool better by applying some new cooling paste and stuff, but I have not bothered. I rather pay a little bit more for a decent box.

[meyergru]

Yup, as I said: It largely depends on the specific manufacturer, however the N5105 stretches the limits of what is possible in a passively cooled box of that size, because it takes 15 Watts instead of 8 for a J4125.

[KevinPeters]

Hi guys, I have recently bought one of these and am having CPU temperature issues with OPNSense. In Debian, I get CPU temps of around 55C idle, but in OPNSense, by default they are 85C and above, even with the hardware modifications regarding the head-spreader and thermal pads.

I get temps down to 65C by disabling powerd (apparently this is not needed with FBSD v13 with the Intel Speed Shift driver) and typing in:

Code Select Expand

sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100
which puts it in maximum efficiency mode (for all cores at once). (At the moment I am struggling to get this setting to be applied at boot because it seems to be being ignored in /etc/systcl.conf!)

If you have this hardware, can you please let me know the output of the following?

Code Select Expand

sysctl dev.cpu.0.freq_levels

Which results, for mine in only showing a single frequency available even though we know it can boost up to 2900MHz:

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dev.cpu.0.freq_levels: 1996/-1

There is some other weird stuff going on and I'm not sure whether there are conflicts between powerd and hwpstate_intel because if you run powerd -v if produces some strange outputs.

Note to self, I followed theses instructions:
https://www.neelc.org/posts/optimize-freebsd-for-intel-tigerlake/

[meyergru]

Same result here with the Topton unit.

I have done not only the heatspreader with K5 pro but also use the new Changwang BIOS which offers a "performance" menu (if I remember correctly) where I lowered PL1 and PL2 to 10 and 12 Watts respectively - also, I lowered the CPU voltage by 30 mV (careful, I have read that setting this too low can render the device useless, even beyond a CMOS reset!).

My relevant tuneables are:

hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest=C1 (do not try lower - system gets unstable!)
hw.ibrs_disable=1 (might help a little)

I am not using powerd.


The device is at 45°C now, but only one port connected and basically sitting idle so far.

P.S.: Put every sysctl setting in tuneables in the GUI, it detects automagically which ones have to be done on boot and which can be set dynamically. I tried it and it survives a reboot.

P.P.S: I just applied 'sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100' and temps dropped another 4°C.

[KevinPeters]

Thanks for this @meyergru, the tunables you suggested worked a treat. I did try setting my PL1 and PL2 to 8 and 10 watts which did seem to reduce the temps from 65 to 55, but on the next boot it was back to 65! No idea why.

I've tried taking the Core CPU voltage down by 50 mwatts but it didn't help. Ideally I'd like it in the 50s before I put this into main router duties!

[LOTRouter]

I purchased the N5105 version of this from Topton and have been running it for nearly a month without any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803825087870.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.4cb61802gFptDb 

The only real issue I had was with the useless AC power cord supplied.  Once I swapped that out I've had no issues.  It generally runs around 48C when idle and pushes 54C under load, and this is without any modifications to thermal paste, or deburing, or even any BIOS changes.  The CPU only pushes around 20% utilization when under load as well, and I get 1.2G out of Xfinity gigabit cable.  I am also running a full Suricata IPS on this box.

YMMV, but I seem to have got a good one.  I did go barebones and added my own RAM and NVMe.

[waka324]

Hi guys, I have recently bought one of these and am having CPU temperature issues with OPNSense. In Debian, I get CPU temps of around 55C idle, but in OPNSense, by default they are 85C and above, even with the hardware modifications regarding the head-spreader and thermal pads.

I get temps down to 65C by disabling powerd (apparently this is not needed with FBSD v13 with the Intel Speed Shift driver) and typing in:

Code Select Expand

sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100
which puts it in maximum efficiency mode (for all cores at once). (At the moment I am struggling to get this setting to be applied at boot because it seems to be being ignored in /etc/systcl.conf!)

If you have this hardware, can you please let me know the output of the following?

Have you been able to set epp to non-100 values and still see the frequency down-shift? I can't get speedshift to work properly on this CPU for some reason. Others on other Intel processors aren't seeing this issue.

[waka324]

UPDATE:

Flashed a new bios from here (https://www.changwang.com/down/59.html) on the off-chance it works and solves the issue.

Solved the issue. The frequency now scales up and down based on usage.

Here's a dump of my tunables as well:

Code Select Expand

dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp Intel Speed Shift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.1.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.2.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.3.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.igc.0.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.1.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.2.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.3.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
hint.hwpstate_intel.0.disabled disable speed shift unsupported 0
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest C-States runtime C1
machdep.hwpstate_pkg_ctrl Intel Pstate boot-time 0

[mimizone]

May I ask how you got OPNsense working?
I have a similar N5105 based PC with 6 ports in my case. Unfortunatelly on OPNsense/pfSense, the cables are not detected, no link up.

For instance on Proxmox it works though.

I've tried the latest 22.7 version from end of July.

that's my hardware
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2JXQS1K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[meyergru]

That sounds strange - the manufacturer says that the hardware is verified to run with OpnSense and you say it works under Proxmox (so no hardware defect).

Did you try under Proxmox first and restored a backup of your OpnSense settings from that installation under your bare-metal OpnSense install? In that case, the interface names do not match. You would have to re-assign the logical interfaces to physical ones via the console menu.

Normally, there is nothing to worry about with these systems - the I225 ports are detected automagically.