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English Forums => Hardware and Performance => Topic started by: meyergru on April 13, 2022, 12:27:42 pm

Title: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on April 13, 2022, 12:27:42 pm
Just my quick findings about this Topton system (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004043431005.html) which seems quite interesting considering it is kind of in-between readily available J4125-based and non-available so far Elkheart Ridge-based x64 boxes. It is ~30% faster than a J4125.

The system has some flaws that CAN be fixed. You can read about this here (unter the second heading) (https://www-congenio-de.translate.goog/infos/opnsense-hardware.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp).

Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: nikkon on April 14, 2022, 12:59:35 pm
you can look at Qotom as well
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003913498579.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51ea5086KRgiRI&algo_pvid=78642af0-9b33-4158-89d4-2e6c98f44f27&algo_exp_id=78642af0-9b33-4158-89d4-2e6c98f44f27-7&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000027454036325%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B163.38%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BEUR%3Bsearch-mainSearch

I use one with i3 and runs perfectly
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on April 14, 2022, 06:01:50 pm
I know, I have another J4125-based system.

Matter-of-fact this is meant more as a warning to the extent that:

1. N5105 hash more 30% performance, but uses 40% more power than a J4125 (despite the TDP claims showing similar values). This makes it difficult to suggest for a passive system of that size.

2. The Topton box has massive production flaws w/r to cooling as of now, set aside the abysmal quality of the power supply.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: beardedhustler on June 13, 2022, 09:43:52 am
Since you've had the device for some months now, any experiences to share? Considering buying a similar device, e.g. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004360185218.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.23.757074ae61Kzl7&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24285.80%21US%20%24151.47%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a556716546898402236176eb15b%2112000028899902859%21sh&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu

Also, how is the tdp/power usage with general use?

Not sure what the main differences are between these with a console port and no VGA, compared to the one you linked to.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on June 13, 2022, 12:59:28 pm
I reduced maximum power draw via some BIOS settings. My unit has stability problems when I enable anything lower than C1, so that limits idle power reduction.

There is a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUuaAPG0PxU) about my specific Topton unit which comes much to the same conclusion as myself: N5105 has ~30% more performance at 70% more power draw (see the discussion below the video as well). Since even a J4125-based system is sufficient for 2.5 GBit/s, I would not buy one of these again but one with a J4125 which you can get cheap now.

Matter-of-fact, the unit you have linked to is no longer available. Topton, like other chinese vendors, buys these units from whereever they can get them and it is hard to even compare one of the same kind a few weeks after. I had the same experience with HUNSN, where one unit had a completely different mainboard than another one I bought two months earlier. Even their description was wrong (saying it had 2 SODIMM slots while there was only one).

Also, the quality of some components is often abysmal, like the cooling in my unit.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: BrakkeBezem on June 13, 2022, 01:07:23 pm
I bought one of those HSIPC J4125 before, but send it back because it would throttle the CPU when there was any activity and the temperature would go up to a 100 degrees Celcius. The build quality is not very amazing. I read that you can get it to cool better by applying some new cooling paste and stuff, but I have not bothered. I rather pay a little bit more for a decent box.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on June 13, 2022, 02:25:02 pm
Yup, as I said: It largely depends on the specific manufacturer, however the N5105 stretches the limits of what is possible in a passively cooled box of that size, because it takes 15 Watts instead of 8 for a J4125.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: KevinPeters on June 16, 2022, 02:07:07 pm
Hi guys, I have recently bought one of these and am having CPU temperature issues with OPNSense. In Debian, I get CPU temps of around 55C idle, but in OPNSense, by default they are 85C and above, even with the hardware modifications regarding the head-spreader and thermal pads.

I get temps down to 65C by disabling powerd (apparently this is not needed with FBSD v13 with the Intel Speed Shift driver) and typing in:
Code: [Select]
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100which puts it in maximum efficiency mode (for all cores at once). (At the moment I am struggling to get this setting to be applied at boot because it seems to be being ignored in /etc/systcl.conf!)

If you have this hardware, can you please let me know the output of the following?

Code: [Select]
sysctl dev.cpu.0.freq_levels
Which results, for mine in only showing a single frequency available even though we know it can boost up to 2900MHz:

Code: [Select]
dev.cpu.0.freq_levels: 1996/-1
There is some other weird stuff going on and I'm not sure whether there are conflicts between powerd and hwpstate_intel because if you run powerd -v if produces some strange outputs.

Note to self, I followed theses instructions:
https://www.neelc.org/posts/optimize-freebsd-for-intel-tigerlake/

Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on June 16, 2022, 06:25:57 pm
Same result here with the Topton unit.

I have done not only the heatspreader with K5 pro but also use the new Changwang BIOS which offers a "performance" menu (if I remember correctly) where I lowered PL1 and PL2 to 10 and 12 Watts respectively - also, I lowered the CPU voltage by 30 mV (careful, I have read that setting this too low can render the device useless, even beyond a CMOS reset!).

My relevant tuneables are:

hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest=C1 (do not try lower - system gets unstable!)
hw.ibrs_disable=1 (might help a little)

I am not using powerd.


The device is at 45°C now, but only one port connected and basically sitting idle so far.

P.S.: Put every sysctl setting in tuneables in the GUI, it detects automagically which ones have to be done on boot and which can be set dynamically. I tried it and it survives a reboot.

P.P.S: I just applied 'sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100' and temps dropped another 4°C.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: KevinPeters on June 19, 2022, 11:39:41 am
Thanks for this @meyergru, the tunables you suggested worked a treat. I did try setting my PL1 and PL2 to 8 and 10 watts which did seem to reduce the temps from 65 to 55, but on the next boot it was back to 65! No idea why.

I've tried taking the Core CPU voltage down by 50 mwatts but it didn't help. Ideally I'd like it in the 50s before I put this into main router duties!
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: LOTRouter on June 21, 2022, 12:12:54 am
I purchased the N5105 version of this from Topton and have been running it for nearly a month without any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803825087870.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.4cb61802gFptDb 

The only real issue I had was with the useless AC power cord supplied.  Once I swapped that out I've had no issues.  It generally runs around 48C when idle and pushes 54C under load, and this is without any modifications to thermal paste, or deburing, or even any BIOS changes.  The CPU only pushes around 20% utilization when under load as well, and I get 1.2G out of Xfinity gigabit cable.  I am also running a full Suricata IPS on this box.

YMMV, but I seem to have got a good one.  I did go barebones and added my own RAM and NVMe.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: waka324 on August 25, 2022, 08:34:04 am
Hi guys, I have recently bought one of these and am having CPU temperature issues with OPNSense. In Debian, I get CPU temps of around 55C idle, but in OPNSense, by default they are 85C and above, even with the hardware modifications regarding the head-spreader and thermal pads.

I get temps down to 65C by disabling powerd (apparently this is not needed with FBSD v13 with the Intel Speed Shift driver) and typing in:
Code: [Select]
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100which puts it in maximum efficiency mode (for all cores at once). (At the moment I am struggling to get this setting to be applied at boot because it seems to be being ignored in /etc/systcl.conf!)

If you have this hardware, can you please let me know the output of the following?


Have you been able to set epp to non-100 values and still see the frequency down-shift? I can't get speedshift to work properly on this CPU for some reason. Others on other Intel processors aren't seeing this issue.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: waka324 on August 26, 2022, 10:51:30 pm
UPDATE:

Flashed a new bios from here (https://www.changwang.com/down/59.html) on the off-chance it works and solves the issue.

Solved the issue. The frequency now scales up and down based on usage.

Here's a dump of my tunables as well:
Code: [Select]
dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp Intel Speed Shift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.1.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.2.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.3.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.igc.0.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.1.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.2.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.3.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
hint.hwpstate_intel.0.disabled disable speed shift unsupported 0
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest C-States runtime C1
machdep.hwpstate_pkg_ctrl Intel Pstate boot-time 0
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: mimizone on September 03, 2022, 12:08:30 am
May I ask how you got OPNsense working?
I have a similar N5105 based PC with 6 ports in my case. Unfortunatelly on OPNsense/pfSense, the cables are not detected, no link up.

For instance on Proxmox it works though.

I've tried the latest 22.7 version from end of July.

that's my hardware
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2JXQS1K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: meyergru on September 03, 2022, 12:43:34 am
That sounds strange - the manufacturer says that the hardware is verified to run with OpnSense and you say it works under Proxmox (so no hardware defect).

Did you try under Proxmox first and restored a backup of your OpnSense settings from that installation under your bare-metal OpnSense install? In that case, the interface names do not match. You would have to re-assign the logical interfaces to physical ones via the console menu.

Normally, there is nothing to worry about with these systems - the I225 ports are detected automagically.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: regs on September 04, 2022, 01:36:07 pm
May I ask how you got OPNsense working?
I have a similar N5105 based PC with 6 ports in my case. Unfortunatelly on OPNsense/pfSense, the cables are not detected, no link up.

For instance on Proxmox it works though.

I've tried the latest 22.7 version from end of July.

that's my hardware
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2JXQS1K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I have a problem with one of my two 100 Mbit connections, with no link and no lights at all, unless I explicitly set the port to 10BASE-T in OPNsense interface settings, so it's only 10 Mbit. Tried every port on both ends and every cable i have, except cross.

All gigabite connections are working fine. Didn't try 2.5 GbE.

On another 100 Mbit connection 100BASE-TX working fine.

I have 6-port Topton CW-N11.

And I wonder if anyone tried at least any cat 6+ LTE modem, mPCIe or m.2?
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: Catalin on September 05, 2022, 09:56:57 am
UPDATE:

Flashed a new bios from here (https://www.changwang.com/down/59.html) on the off-chance it works and solves the issue.

Solved the issue. The frequency now scales up and down based on usage.

Here's a dump of my tunables as well:
Code: [Select]
dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp Intel Speed Shift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.1.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.2.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.hwpstate_intel.3.epp Intel Speedshift Efficiency runtime 100
dev.igc.0.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.1.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.2.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
dev.igc.3.fc Flow Control on Interface runtime 0
hint.hwpstate_intel.0.disabled disable speed shift unsupported 0
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest C-States runtime C1
machdep.hwpstate_pkg_ctrl Intel Pstate boot-time 0

Hi. I also flashed a bios on my N6006 unit but it seems I broke it, I no longer have video. Unfortunately, support in basically non-existent and the update from Chanwang site (link above) is not a full BIOS. Do you tink it's possible for your to send me a full dump of the BIOS from your unit? cand be done via UEFI boot process.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: mimizone on September 07, 2022, 07:42:13 pm
That sounds strange - the manufacturer says that the hardware is verified to run with OpnSense and you say it works under Proxmox (so no hardware defect).

Did you try under Proxmox first and restored a backup of your OpnSense settings from that installation under your bare-metal OpnSense install? In that case, the interface names do not match. You would have to re-assign the logical interfaces to physical ones via the console menu.

Normally, there is nothing to worry about with these systems - the I225 ports are detected automagically.

It is indeed strange.
PFsense and OPNsense were both tested bare metal installed from a USB stick freshly created from the latest images available online last week.
Is there a way to force the interface to 2.5Gb or to 1Gbps from the CLI ?

I'll try one last time, otherwise I'll stick to using proxmox and dedicating the PCI device to the OPNsense VM.
If the performance is not bad, it's a nice way to get snapshotting capability too! :D


Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: Seimus on June 18, 2023, 03:48:50 pm
My two cents in this topic.

I ordered from Ali a Topton N5105 i226-V box without RAM and NVME (those I suplied myself as its cheaper localy).

Order placed on:  Jun 7, 2023
Delivered:            Jun 16,2023


My possitive observations:

My negative observations:


Overall I am happy with what I got. Thermals are Okay, The BOX performs very well, and I have more headroom to implemented more features.

Will see with time how the BOX will perform long term as well during extremly hot days. But so far so good.

Regards,
S.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: Seimus on June 22, 2023, 10:31:19 am
Small Update on my N5105 unit. Temps dropped another 4C.

I did disassemble it to look how is the cooling system done. On the CPU there is a small heat plate that is bridging the CPU Die with the Cooling plate (chassis). Not sure what Paste they did use but between the small heat plate and the Cooling plate paste was extremely dried out.

Cleaned the Paste from CPU (didn't looked to fresh as well) and the heat plate as well heat sing. Put a fresh line of MX4 and assembled back. This did drop temps about 4C in the same environmental conditions.

Regards,
S.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: 134 on June 24, 2023, 09:14:19 pm
Just bought CWWK N100 unit. I was paying attention to N5105 but ultimately waited for N100 and the reviews. Alder Lake-N is much faster than Jasper Lake.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: Seimus on June 26, 2023, 10:13:05 am
Just bought CWWK N100 unit. I was paying attention to N5105 but ultimately waited for N100 and the reviews. Alder Lake-N is much faster than Jasper Lake.

I was thinking to buy one instead of N5105. Because at least per ServetheHome YT channel these N100 came with better chassis and overall performance was better. However the N100 at the time I was looking at it was much more expensive so I went with N5105 instead.

Regards,
S.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: chuliu on August 09, 2023, 04:10:00 am
Same result here with the Topton unit.

I have done not only the heatspreader with K5 pro but also use the new Changwang BIOS which offers a "performance" menu (if I remember correctly) where I lowered PL1 and PL2 to 10 and 12 Watts respectively - also, I lowered the CPU voltage by 30 mV (careful, I have read that setting this too low can render the device useless, even beyond a CMOS reset!).

My relevant tuneables are:

hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest=C1 (do not try lower - system gets unstable!)
hw.ibrs_disable=1 (might help a little)

I am not using powerd.


The device is at 45°C now, but only one port connected and basically sitting idle so far.

P.S.: Put every sysctl setting in tuneables in the GUI, it detects automagically which ones have to be done on boot and which can be set dynamically. I tried it and it survives a reboot.

P.P.S: I just applied 'sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100' and temps dropped another 4°C.




Hi, I am running opnsense on a N5105 mini pc which I bought off aliexpress.
I too am getting high cpu temperature issues.
The cpu would go up to 81 celcius.
I am newbie to all this.
May I know in details where to type in these commands:
hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest=C1 (do not try lower - system gets unstable!)
hw.ibrs_disable=1 (might help a little)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: newsense on August 09, 2023, 04:41:05 am
A screenshot of your Powerd settings please. System - Settings - Miscellaneous
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: newsense on August 09, 2023, 04:42:13 am
And don't cross post please, you already opened a thread for this
Title: Re: Topton N5105 based system
Post by: mimizone on March 11, 2024, 05:56:16 pm
Forgot to answer... sorry.

so just for info, the issue was a mix of the user (me) and opnsense drivers (I guess).
The interfaces show up in a different order if I remember correctly.