Roadmap : false advertising?!

[waxhead]

Hi,

Just for the record I would like to state that I am in love with OPNsense and lots of good thing have happened since it was forked from pfSense. So nothing wrong with that.

What I do have an issue with is the roadmap. How can you change the roadmap right before release as you see fit without even admitting that some things where simply not done.

For example:
https://opnsense.org/about/road-map/
vs
https://web.archive.org/web/20180604160509/https://opnsense.org/about/road-map/

Maybe I am misunderstanding that roadmap, but I view it as  "release goals" and "planned future stuff" which admittedly is also on that webpage.
So don't get me wrong , but would it not be much better (and more honest) to put a red cross over the goals/planned features that where missed? The way it is done now look nice from a marketing perspective. Wow these guys meet their release goals all the time , but we know that is not true and *if' (and that is a big if) my memory serves me correctly this have happened before as well.

I think that adding new things are ok , but please consider marking failed (or delayed) features with either red=cancelled, or yellow=planned for future release.

We all know that software projects often scraps certain features since something better come along. I do realize that my post may sound a bit harsh , but for me the roadmap is quite frankly "false advertising" and I would really appreciate if you can not remove things from the roadmap , but instead mark them a bit more clearly as either cancelled or delayed. After all this is only natural for a software with fixed release dates...

PS! Looking forward to trying out 18.7 - keep up the good work, and thanks for the (free) fish!

[franco]

I don't know if one can call it advertising. There is no sale involved...

We are honest with our goals and overreach and without help sometimes we can't meet them. The roadmap is a top view and it may shift. If you want pristine records use GitHub:

https://github.com/opnsense/core/milestone/8?closed=1

I've spend an exhausting few weeks preparing 18.7 and e.g. ZFS installer was beyond my human capabilities with all the other ZFS related things that already went in during 18.1 because nobody else worked on it over the years. The best way was to pull ZFS from the roadmap. I've mentioned it in the forum, too:

https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=4255.msg41550#msg41550

The firewall alias API goal was missed too. It's back up for 19.1 soon and will hit an early 18.7.x release nevertheless.

If you have more things that you feel mislead I'm sorry.

I'm not in favour of red checkmarks that memorialise where unpaid contributions are not up to spec with the requirements of my personal life and I would hope other contributors feel similar.

There is also no point in tainting the release notes with all the things we didn't do. That's not how progress is defined in my view.

We can also kill the roadmap, but I remember that users asked for it because it was not delivered elsewhere and left little to no clue about where a particular project would go over the years.

Again, if you feel misled I'm sorry, but I don't know how to change that without giving less information about what will happen midterm.

[fabian]

The roadmap is imho a list of goals the core team wants to reach. Because of the nature of an open source project there may be some new stuff, which was not planned by the core team which may get on the read map because an "unplanned" goal was reached. Sometimes the time for some planned goals is not there - which means the goal must be moved to another release or dropped entirely. The road map is exactly what franco said - a list of changes to expect, but nothing guaranteed.

[fabian]

@franco: I need an API for updating aliases in nginx for a feedback loop (blocking attacker IPs by parsing a special log). If would be cool if there would be an API for updating the alias in PF immediately.

[franco]

This is totally off topic but the API is there. Yet the migration code isn't enabled and the old page is still the one in the menu. It's the last 5% of work missing because it amounts to 50% worth of QA time.

[guest15389]

Things routinely get moved around on roadmaps or pushed into another quarter/release.

I would find calling it false advertising to be extremely harsh for a free product that the team really communicates so much on what they are doing.

They also use the term 'wishes' in their roadmap which translates to me if they had unlimited time/resources/etc, it would be there, but in the end, it's a 'wish' that may or may not come true.

I am routinely impressed with their transparency and thoughtfulness of the devs posts and help that they offer.

[franco]

Just to let you guys know, we are back to stalking and harassment now from the user called "htilonom" who was allegedly causing the deletion of our Wikipedia page and involved in creating opnsense.com in the first place [1]

This topic now especially caught the spotlight:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OPNscammed/comments/93pmyk/opnsense_called_out_for_changing_roadmap_a_day/

I am sure this is just coincidental and there is no reason why anyone would focus on this. Especially not Netgate, its owner Jim Thompson, pfSense mastermind, right?

https://twitter.com/gonzopancho/status/1024493145415929856

Consider this a setup and tainted discussion from the start. At this point these attempts are petty at best as if they haven't learned from the opnsense.com debacle and I guess the downwards trend will continue.


[1] https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=6466.0

[mimugmail]

Keep cool, keep it rollin, for every bad word I'll build a new plugin.

[waxhead]

Just to let you guys know, we are back to stalking and harassment now from the user called "htilonom" who was allegedly causing the deletion of our Wikipedia page and involved in creating opnsense.com in the first place [1]

This topic now especially caught the spotlight:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OPNscammed/comments/93pmyk/opnsense_called_out_for_changing_roadmap_a_day/

I am sure this is just coincidental and there is no reason why anyone would focus on this. Especially not Netgate, its owner Jim Thompson, pfSense mastermind, right?

https://twitter.com/gonzopancho/status/1024493145415929856

Consider this a setup and tainted discussion from the start. At this point these attempts are petty at best as if they haven't learned from the opnsense.com debacle and I guess the downwards trend will continue.


[1] https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=6466.0

WOW!
I guess this is my fault - sincerely sorry about that. Putting fuel on the fire for that "thing" over there was NOT my intentions.

Well, to clear this up once and for all. I have no issues with Franco said - I understand that point of view very well.
Keep in mind that I also clearly stated that I like OPNsense (there is a reason I don't use pfSense anymore), as OPNsense have seriously cleaned up the user interface *and* functionality a lot from what pfSense used to be. There is also no unnecessary requirements like AES or other weird ideas that are in the direction of what pfSense seems to be heading.
And just for the record - I can now actually use *and understand* the traffic shaper. Thanks to sane thinking by the OPNsense team!
How about that u/htilonom?! Do you still want to link to screenshots?

That being said (and I realize that u/htilonom may use this as fuel for the fire) I still stand by my comment that the roadmap should not have been changed just days before release. If it was changed a month or so before I would not have mind as much. That however is no reason to go berzerk on redit and behaving a desperate fanatic like the user u/htilonom does.

My post should be clear about my point of views of OPNsense so - let's put it differently this time - The problem with the roadmap is actually : outdated information.

So for what it is worth - I apologize for my bad wording, and I never wanted that crap on redit to happen , and I strongly dislike that someone is using my own words for literally propaganda as this is for sure NOT what I intended. As I said: "I realize that my post may sound harsh" - which means it should not be taken harshly!

PS! I wonder what would happen if I posted such a critical post at some other forum (guess which one) I would not be surprised if my post and perhaps even user was deleted!

[beren]

The only thing I can think of is a clear way to see when a goal is punted, maybe only if it's close to release? Maybe notes at the bottom, like "Due to x, y feature has been moved to 19.1"

[milkywaygoodfellas]

Just to let you guys know, we are back to stalking and harassment now from the user called "htilonom" who was allegedly causing the deletion of our Wikipedia page and involved in creating opnsense.com in the first place [1]

This topic now especially caught the spotlight:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OPNscammed/comments/93pmyk/opnsense_called_out_for_changing_roadmap_a_day/

I am sure this is just coincidental and there is no reason why anyone would focus on this. Especially not Netgate, its owner Jim Thompson, pfSense mastermind, right?

https://twitter.com/gonzopancho/status/1024493145415929856

Consider this a setup and tainted discussion from the start. At this point these attempts are petty at best as if they haven't learned from the opnsense.com debacle and I guess the downwards trend will continue.


[1] https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=6466.0

Oh brother... what a bunch of mooks.  This kind of behavior just further cements my unwillingness to recommend pfsense in any sort of professional capacity.

I'm still waiting for an answer from them on how one can "steal code" from a supposedly open-source project, lol...

EDIT: Whoops, quoted wrong post... fixed now.

[beren]

The only thing I can think of is a clear way to see when a goal is punted, maybe only if it's close to release? Maybe notes at the bottom, like "Due to x, y feature has been moved to 19.1"

Oh. Wanted to add: This kind of stuff happens all the time when released are made on a schedule. If a feature isn't ready it gets punted, totally normal. Apple, MS, etc often push features back if they aren't ready.

[doktornotor]

I cannot believe there's yet another round of mud slinging produced by Jim Thompson (and his socket accounts, such as "htilonom"). I'd have expected him to finally get out of the public view and hire someone to deal with public/users' community (notably after @gonzo having ack'ed multiple times that every time he directly deals with users, it turns out to be a complete PR nightmare...)

Well, that apparently did not happen, so, I have some things that needs to be stated:

I had my GitHub repo taken down due to DMCA filled by Netgate. The infringing "copyright management" patch consists of this:

Code: [Select]

--- /usr/local/www/index.php 2018-03-21 17:10:19.000000000 +0100
+++ /usr/local/www/index.php 2018-03-22 23:16:28.180376000 +0100
@@ -504,10 +504,10 @@
  * when trigger file exists. Trigger file is created during upgrade process
  * when /etc/version changes
  */
-require_once("copyget.inc");
+// require_once("copyget.inc");
 
 if (file_exists("{$g['cf_conf_path']}/copynotice_display")) {
- require_once("copynotice.inc");
+ // require_once("copynotice.inc");
  @unlink("{$g['cf_conf_path']}/copynotice_display");
 }
 
--- /usr/local/www/wizards/setup_wizard.xml 2018-03-21 17:10:19.000000000 +0100
+++ /usr/local/www/wizards/setup_wizard.xml 2018-03-22 23:25:26.104459000 +0100
@@ -763,7 +763,7 @@
  write_config(gettext("Configuration saved on completion of the pfSense setup wizard."));
  reload_all();
  mwexec_bg("/etc/rc.update_bogons.sh now");
- touch("{$g['cf_conf_path']}/copynotice_display");
+ // touch("{$g['cf_conf_path']}/copynotice_display");
  ]]>
  </stepafterformdisplay>
 </step>

Netgate must be absolutely desperate to waste money on lawyers to deal with similar things.

I'm still waiting for an answer from them on how one can "steal code" from a supposedly open-source project, lol...

Oh yeah, the pfSense project is definitely extremely open-source, as documented in my reinstated repo.  They just don't publish the FreeBSD source code, but otherwise you can fully check it, as falsely advertised in each of their release notes. 

This kind of behavior just further cements my unwillingness to recommend pfsense in any sort of professional capacity.

That'd be a very sound decision, considering actions like this:
- Restricting packages to official repository (link to commit)

Anyway, there's nothing like shooting yourself in the foot with stupid insults, such as this @gonzo tweet, notably when their own QinQ code has been broken for months.

 

Talking about "roadmaps", you can have a look at pfSense bug tracker and see the bugs/features getting postponed release after release after release. Yeah, that's kinda normal, everyone does that. It's just coding reality.

Enough time wasted dealing with Netgate, keep the focus on your own development instead, guys... Cheers and good luck.

[mimugmail]

Welcome Dok! Thanks for the new repo ... 

[Davesworld]

I can't think of any reason why any semi-civil person would want to side with someone touting a project who feels so good about it that they feel the need to resort to 13 year old bullying and taunting behavior. This person is really doing PFsense a disservice. When OPNsense forked, I was still trying PFsense but the behavior of that community in response to the fork was a total turn off. Looking at OPNsense goals at the time as well as the accessibility and transparency of the devs cemented my decision to give OPNsense a go. I would never want to be associated with a community that accepts and engages in this sort of behavior. I have seen this individuals smear campaigns before, it comes across an incoherent babble like I would see in the confused ward at a care facility except those folks cannot help it, this person can help it but chooses not to.