TOPTON Mini PC Running OPNSense Frequent Freezing

[nero355]

if it fails memtest86, maybe try again with a big fan directed onto the top of the Topton.
Then try regular deployed use with the big fan blowing on it.

I have been interested in mini-pc devices like this, such as Protectli Vault models, but the lack of active cooling always makes me hesitate.
I wonder, can it really be stable and provide high uptimes?

On at least some models, Protectli includes tightly fitted slabs of aluminum heat transfer blocks between critical components and the topside heat sink. Are blocks like these present inside the Topton models? I have no idea.

But if I were advising someone else, I would say, can lowering the operating temperature by increasing airflow across the heat sink improve system stability at all?

Topton is just unreliable cheap garbage.

Ive seen people buy Toptons like crazy, and then mount a fan on them because their aluminum case can not dissipate heat properly because they use the worst quality materials.
It complete defeats the purpose because this is advertised as passively cooled unit.

Worst of all, their quality is so inconsistent, that some units can work reliably for years, and some die for no reason after few months.
And thats the exact reason why you should avoid them.

I think you guys need to know that there are some "Rules" so to speak about these units :
- There were some quality issues in the past with some of the cheaper Mini PCs.
I am not sure if they were all TopTon models or some others too like Qotom/Protectli/etc. but these should all be fixes by now AFAIK.
Main issues were misaligned heatsinks and/or thermal compound fuckups!
- There were multiple versions of them : A/B/C
In general you want to have a model with Y-shaped heatsink elements on top of the case.
The ones that were I-shaped or simply flat and/or T-shaped were less efficient and sometimes even simply bad !!
- Another issue that some people had when upgrading the amount of RAM or simply ordering them without RAM and wanting to add their own was the compatibility with various RAM modules.
If you want exact details then go and look it up because I can't remember the exact details anymore...
- Something I experienced myself with the used unit that I bought from someone who used the unit for about 6 months : The NVMe SSD made by SKhynix turned out to be unreliable.
Slapped in a Samsung 980 (Pro?! Not sure anymore...) that I had laying around and for almost a year now ZERO ISSUES :)

Especially when people that have these units start to recommend them and claim that they have it for X amount of years, and they are working just fine. If you are on a tight budget, go for Quotom. But dont be a cheap ass and go below that. It will cost you more in a long run.

If you happen to be Dutch or feel like using some translating service in your browser go ahead and look around here : https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1622491/last
You will find experiences with all sorts of units and not everything is as horrible as you seem have experienced it for whatever reason...

People running pfSense/OPNsense/OpenWRT/Full DIY Linux Router/etc. on Protectli/Qotom/TopTon/other brands that I can't remember without any issues at all !!!

Its normal for CPU to run hot, but its the heat sinks job to take that heat away from CPU and then dissipate it.
These units are not doing that because they have crappy metal case with terrible thermal conductivity.

Mostly misaligned heatsinks and thermal paste mistakes from what I have seen and the design of the heatsink fins matter too!

This is why on passive Toptons people are forced to install additional fans, not to keep the unit cool, but to keep CPU from thermal throttling and premature damage. It is that bad.

Most units have a spot for mounting a fan, but I have seen people only use them when the Mini PC would be placed in a hot environment or badly cooled place.

In normal cases I haven't seen many people use one to be honest!

The cheap N150 device I have for OPNsense is sinked at the case, but has an integrated ext fan to keep the aluminum cool. It is not doing a lot of work, but so far it's been stable.
see https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=48166.0

Thats not a good solution either.

Opnsense appliances should always be passive machines with no moving parts.

If you have a tiny fan inside, that thing is piling up the dust as we speak. If you dont clean it regularly, it can die in a few years.
Even if its not spinning all the time. I dont want to think about this. I want to setup my firewall and forget that its there.

I FULLY AGREE !!! :)

Opinions are like... (There's a "one size fits all" joke in there somewhere.)

The thing is that some people have soo strong opinions about certain things that they make things sound worse than they are and that's something to watch out for IMHO :)

[BrandyWine]

Is the device overheating on cpu core?

Its normal for CPU to run hot, but its the heat sinks job to take that heat away from CPU and then dissipate it. These units are not doing that because they have crappy metal case with terrible thermal conductivity. The CPU gets hot, starts to throttle, it heats everything inside the unit, and then that heat from the inside is radiating on the aluminum case through your storage, memory modules and PCB. This is why on passive Toptons people are forced to install additional fans, not to keep the unit cool, but to keep CPU from thermal throttling and premature damage. It is that bad. The unit with same specs from either Protectli or Thomas Krenn costs 3 times more. Ask yourself why.

Most cpu's will try and protect themselves from overheating.

CPU will almost never die on these units because it has mechanisms to protect itself. It does that with thermal throttling or simply shutting down. Its the other components in that tiny case that will suffer and die eventually. Your storage, your memory modules and worst of all, motherboard.

The cheap N150 device I have for OPNsense is sinked at the case, but has an integrated ext fan to keep the aluminum cool. It is not doing a lot of work, but so far it's been stable.
see https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=48166.0

Thats not a good solution either. Opnsense appliances should always be passive machines with no moving parts. If you have a tiny fan inside, that thing is piling up the dust as we speak. If you dont clean it regularly, it can die in a few years. Even if its not spinning all the time. I dont want to think about this. I want to setup my firewall and forget that its there.

I was asking how or if the unit from post #1 is overheating?

But just for clarity I will repeat what I wrote, "... but has an integrated ext fan ...". Just a fan on the "sealed" case. There is no tiny fan inside.
The same device I linked also had a no-fan model. They advertised the unit with fan as "it runs cooler with fan", etc.
If the ext fan dies or faults, it's a low cost fan and a 3min swap-out w/o ever shutting down the device.

As for dust where there is a fan pulling or pushing air through the device, all kinda depends on if it's filtered and flow rate. My old hefty xeon/asrock PC runs a lot every day, it has two ~5" push-in fans in the front bezel, two 5" pull-out fans in the top of case, fan on the cpu radiator, along with a fan in the PSU, and the nvidia gpu card has mini fans on it (wow, so many fans). They all run at various speeds depending on temp sensors, but usually low rpm's most of the time, it moves a lot of air but does it very quietly. The top of my case is 80% perforated, it's under a desk, not best for spill risk. The inside of the case does get slight dust, filters get dirty, but no dust buildup anywhere. I usually clean the inbound filters every 6mo. I think because of the airflow rate the dust that comes in just gets sucked out.

I want to setup my firewall and forget that its there.

Set It and Forget It ?
That's like speaking for every end-user who plugs anything in and wants it to work 100% w/o ever having an issue. Never gonna happen.
Plus, with OPNsense you'll be updating frequently, no real way around that if you wish to maintain security posture.

[Nullman]

Set It and Forget It ?

Yes. I dont want to open my device just so i can remove dust carpets. I dont want to lubricate or replace failing/dead fans. I dont want to get my hands dirty with thermal paste.

That's like speaking for every end-user who plugs anything in and wants it to work 100% w/o ever having an issue. Never gonna happen.

Its already happening for me, and im happy.

Plus, with OPNsense you'll be updating frequently, no real way around that if you wish to maintain security posture.

I have no problem with that. However, my set it and forget it statement was referring to hardware, not the software.

[nero355]

I dont want to get my hands dirty with thermal paste.

'Special for you my friend' : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zalman+stg1+paste&ia=images&iax=images

No need to get messy with that good old paste! :P

[BrandyWine]

Yes. I dont want to open my device just so i can remove dust carpets. I dont want to lubricate or replace failing/dead fans. I dont want to get my hands dirty with thermal paste.

Is there any fanless hardware that has no holes to let in air & to let out hot air? All my fanless asic devices have holes in them.