Should I use Opnsense?

[pfry]

[...]
2. There were a few comments on a regular desktop chip consuming a lot of power compared to prebuilt options. I'm sure this is possible, but has anyone ever tried tuning a desktop chip to be as efficient as possible in order to sip power? Ultimately saving a buck.

Sure, you can set clocks and power targets on many CPUs, but using a low-power device to start tends to be easier. Your Haswell may offer such (K model CPU), but I believe you'd need a higher-end motherboard chipset to take advantage of it. I always used the C series (workstation) chipsets, so my Intel stuff was always locked down (and all of my motherboards were factory configured for unlimited long-term turbo).

[meyergru]

The power draw is less influenced by the CPU than it is by the components.

For example, a Desktop mainboard has 8 SATA Ports, 24 PCIe lanes, a Sound Chip, many USB Ports, and often a WiFi Chips. Each of Those increases power draw by 0.5-1 Watts.

Then, your typical Desktop has a power supply that is Rated for 600 Watts or more to accomodate a graphics Card. Power supplies Tend to have Their best efficiency at about half of their Rated power. At 25 Watt Idle power draw, Most pc supplies have an efficiency rate of less than 50%.

That is why I recommended a PicoPSU with a Max Rating of 80 Watts. Yet that alone will set you back so much that Buying a dedicated System may be worthwhile.

There is a YouTube Channel called Wolfgang's Channel who shows how to do that.

[Patrick M. Hausen]

There is a YouTube Channel called Wolfgang's Channel who shows how to do that.

Coworker of mine ;-)

[BrandyWine]

I can take things one at a time and simply start with a good, fast, router.

But w/o some metrics how do we now what you mean by "good" and "fast"?
Are you talking about 10Gb all day long, a 100Mb on occasion? How much encryption will be done?

You can tune cpu power down to whatever min level you can tolerate. Dozing cpu means it takes longer to wake up.

What's the concern about power use? Cost of the power, the heat it makes, other?

As far as notify on updates, check this one https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=23227.0
I however have a shell script (for another product I have) that checks to see if a web path has something new, and if it does the script pulls it down via wget. You can easily do checking using any scripting you like, just go look at a download mirror to see what that latest version is. This is just for OPNsense. Just open a mirror and look:
https://mirror.sfo12.us.leaseweb.net/opnsense/releases/
https://mirror.vraphim.com/opnsense/releases/
https://mirror.raiolanetworks.com/opnsense/releases/

[pfry]

[...]
That is why I recommended a PicoPSU with a Max Rating of 80 Watts. Yet that alone will set you back so much that Buying a dedicated System may be worthwhile. [...]

Er, $25-50? Although you'll need a decent AC supply, too, so there's that expense. These days I'd try the HDPlex "250W GaN Passive AIO ATX Power Supply", largely as it's a single unit. Worth the price? Probably not. But hey. In the past the PicoPSU's limited 3.3 and 5V output was a constraint, but these days more devices use 12V (even a few motherboards), so the ones with a 12V input should be... well, better.

[...]
What's the concern about power use? Cost of the power, the heat it makes, other? [...]

One or more of the above. Some are legitimate, some are... elective. Like most folks, I have some real constraints, and I go out of my way to find others.

[BrandyWine]

One or more of the above. Some are legitimate, some are... elective. Like most folks, I have some real constraints, and I go out of my way to find others.

Well, there's two solutions for that.
1) Obtain some free power from sunlight, have a battery (charged by sunlight) that powers it when the sunlight is dark. So free power here.
2) Lower heat means lower used wattage. Devices rarely use full rated power, but using less power means less heat. If the heat dissipation vectors are an issue (like in small enclosure or room), then some sort of ductwork and fan is needed to move the heat elsewhere.

Not knowing the actual constraints means less fruitful answers.

[meyergru]

Here in Germany 1 Watt of 24/7 Operation is around 2€ per Year. With a typical Desktop drawing 30 Watts more power, a dedicated N100 for around 250€ pays for itself after 3 years of Operation.

I would rather Sell the old desktop on EBay than to repurpose it as a Firewall.

Of course, this depends on actual Energy cost and if you can use alternative power sources.

[BrandyWine]

Here in Germany 1 Watt of 24/7 Operation is around 2€ per Year. With a typical Desktop drawing 30 Watts more power, a dedicated N100 for around 250€ pays for itself after 3 years of Operation.

I would rather Sell the old desktop on EBay than to repurpose it as a Firewall.

Of course, this depends on actual Energy cost and if you can use alternative power sources.

Germany ranked #8 for most expensive.

There's no ROI when using power. The best you get is a TCO comparison. Power using devices only have ROI if they can give back more than they use, like solar panels, but these days the electric companies do not care to pay you money, they often times just give credits to some max threshold, making ROI about impossible to achieve.

[meyergru]

If you have to pay 250€ more than just using something you already have (= 0€), but you Save 80€ per year, that invest will be amortized After 3 years. Period.

It does not matter what you call it, ROI or TCO. I did not call it either.

The simple fact is that in Germany, After 4 years, you will have less total cost when you do but a dedicated box instand of repurposing an old Desktop. And the cost difference will only increase with more time passing. Easy as that.

[BrandyWine]

If you have to pay 250€ more than just using something you already have (= 0€), but you Save 80€ per year, that invest will be amortized After 3 years. Period.

I get it.

However......

spend 250 for device, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 500 for 3yrs
spend 0 for existing, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 250 for 3yrs

It's like saying "come to the big sale at Macy's, all day today save 25%"

Blahhhhhahahaha. You not saving anything, you just spending less (less money out of your wallet).

A ROI means pos money flow into your account (we usually choose the pos nature of "ROI", ROI can also be negative, like depreciating value of car or home). No power using device ever gives you pos ROI. A device like solar panels might, depends on who buys the juice coming out of it.

So, the TCO parts just means how much you spent over time, A vs B. That's only the cost view, then layer on performance/features/ability to upgrade, yada yada yada.

I would opt to spend a little now, because both choices age over time, so why start with something that is already aged?

We're on the same page. Cheers.

[Patrick M. Hausen]

spend 250 for device, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 500 for 3yrs
spend 0 for existing, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 250 for 3yrs

The new 250 $/€ device will use roughly 80 $/€ worth of electricity bill less per year than the repurposed 0 $/€ desktop machine. That's why it pays after 3 years.

[BrandyWine]

spend 250 for device, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 500 for 3yrs
spend 0 for existing, spend 250 for 3yrs, = 250 for 3yrs

The new 250 $/€ device will use roughly 80 $/€ worth of electricity bill less per year than the repurposed 0 $/€ desktop machine. That's why it pays after 3 years.

So what was the 3yr electric cost for old vs new device? I perhaps misunderstood that part.

And as long as you are paying for electric, no ROI, just TCO A vs B.

[Patrick M. Hausen]

Desktop draws at least 30 W more power than an embedded device (Protectli or similar from Aliexpress). Which results in 80 € more per year for electricity. The absolute numbers are not that interesting.

[BrandyWine]

Desktop draws at least 30 W more power than an embedded device (Protectli or similar from Aliexpress). Which results in 80 € more per year for electricity. The absolute numbers are not that interesting.

I don't follow.
So regardless of the embedded device, the desktop is always +30w? Doesn't make much sense.

If my embedded is 1w, desktop is 31w?
If my embedded is 15w, desktop is 45w?

Need real world example, real numbers.

The difference in power costs is embedded power costs vs desktop power costs.

If the example was embedded was 10 and the desktop was 40, ok, diff of +30 for the desktop. 3yrs worth is +30 x 3yr x cost per unit.

[Patrick M. Hausen]

@meyergru was comparing the desktop in the initial post with a common embedded firewall device. The latter clock in at 20 W or below, typically.