So i was thinking of using my mini pc as a router and i currently run opnsense, but i wanted ap too. I was first thinking about openwrt but then because of openwrt difficulties in proxmox i thought what about use a mini pcie card in opnsense. Is this possibile with any wifi 6 one and if yes which should i get? At the openwrt forum they told me the aw7916 npd from asia rf but it costs a lost. By the way please help me set up the wireless interface.
I am probably wrong, but I don't think every wifi card can be an AP, I think they may have special firmware. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong so I can maybe make use of this too.
I've tried making the included wifi card in my old HP T620 into an AP, and I don't remember being successful. That was with pfsense though, so maybe a difference. I might have also tried this with an AWOW J4105 mini-PC and suffered the same failure, but that would have again been PF.
Ι've been at the openwrt page reading about ap compatibility and i have to agree. Though my question is if i can setup an internal ap using a WIFI 6 (!) pcie card in my mini pc. Is it possible and if yes how and with what stuff? Thank you for your contribution but i need clear and specific answers ;)
This is an attempt from Greg to help you but there are so many variables that it is difficult to give a straighter answer without providing context for the pitfalls.
The answer is yes - see - https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/how-tos/interface_wireless_internal.html
But please also note the warning on the page:
QuoteFreeBSD supports wireless adapters in access point (infrastructure) mode, but this functionality is limited to some drivers and there may be some, which do not support all options available via the web interface. Please make sure that you buy a wireless card that is supported to avoid these problems.
As a parallel, note the status for Linux https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers
Back to freeBSD, you need to look at the hardware compatibility list. For instance for ver 13.1 Release: https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.1R/hardware/
Putting it together, for best compatibility you need to look for a freeBSD-supported card (by chipset) and one that can be put in AP mode. The instructions on how are on the manual page I linked.
Hey cookkie, is there a popular card out there that someone from the forum has used and made a topic about it ?
Dunno. Your forum search will be as good as mine ;)
But you'll likely come to see that because is a trial and error at the user's expense, most of the time the advice given is to take the alternative route of getting a separate device into the OPN port or switch downstream from OPN in AP mode. I use eeros and all works great.
I appreciate that is not as cheap as a £20 wfi card and different geographies have different availabilities and prices though.
I use an ARM device with wifi stick in access point mode running linux (bridged with eth0). I have one opnsense with wifi as WAN, but that's a different piece of cake.
wifi as an access point on opnsense directly: I don't think you will find a single thread on this forum supporting this setup, not to speak of wifi 6
https://wiki.freebsd.org/dev
https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/hardware/
https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/wireless/hardware.html
Quote from: chemlud on July 17, 2024, 01:59:08 PM
I use an ARM device with wifi stick in access point mode running linux (bridged with eth0). I have one opnsense with wifi as WAN, but that's a different piece of cake.
wifi as an access point on opnsense directly: I don't think you will find a single thread on this forum supporting this setup, not to speak of wifi 6
https://wiki.freebsd.org/dev
https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/hardware/
https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/wireless/hardware.html
i guess then i will have to stick either with openwrt in proxmox that is never been experimented for wifi purposes or buy an external consumer router
I can recommend the hAP-ax2 (https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ax2) by Mikrotik ;)
Pros:
* sturdy design
* low power consumption
* therefore little heat
* all the features at least I could wish for
Cons:
* need to learn RouterOS
* default setup is for a complete home gateway/firewall, so you need to disable a ton of stuff for AP/layer2 only operation
i already got a mini pc bro i need a pcie card to make it act as a wifi ap
FreeBSD/OPNsense cannot act as a WiFi AP with reasonable performance and modern features.
As noted above by others, there is zero support for ac/ax in FreeBSD. Even 11n is not fully implemented, LOL. Move on and get a proper WiFi AP.
I prefer a raspberry pi 2b and a wifi stick with built-in (!!) firmware in current RaspiOS Bullseye. Actually two of them for seamless wifi throughout the house. Choose the wifi stick wisely.
Setup of the bridge with NetworkManager is quite straight-forward.
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/configuration.html#use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-network-bridge
You have control over the OS of your AP ;-).
No configuration needed in opnsense.
OK, I'll ask this. Suppose I buy an ax version AP like this one https://mikrotik.com/product/cap_ax ... Why does it need all of the router OS to run it if the firewall/router is handling all the vlans and stuff? This is an area that I just haven't need to get into.
As far as learning router OS, there are a few good books on Amazon, and if you get the Kindle version they can be pretty cheap. Not sure how many have been updated to RouterOS 7 yet, but I'm guessing v6.x is close enough for learning the ropes.
You do not need any router to get WiFi. Get an access point.
Quote from: Greg_E on July 18, 2024, 04:19:47 PM
OK, I'll ask this. Suppose I buy an ax version AP like this one https://mikrotik.com/product/cap_ax ... Why does it need all of the router OS to run it if the firewall/router is handling all the vlans and stuff? This is an area that I just haven't need to get into.
This device works perfectly well as an access point. I have it running like this. They just ship it with RouterOS so it might serve as your uplink router and AP if you prefer.
About every consumer device I know does this starting with the infamous Fritz!box. Configure as "LAN Client" - voila, AP mode.
My main home lab switch is a CSR326 made by them and - suprise - runs RouterOS. That's just their universal platform.
The Mikrotik AP is comparatively cheap for what you get and runs a well established OS.
I am not in any way affiliated with Mikrotik.
I have a couple Mikrotik products in production, I like them even though I'm not really using all the features. I keep thinking of phasing out my old Cisco stuff and going with Mikrotik as the replacement, this is all lab stuff and working with Cisco is an ever diminishing return as I get closer to retirement age.
in reply to anyone telling me to buy a router or ap i will probably not. The reason is because almost none under 200 euros ap/router has a 2.5 gbps port which i need to transport the data at the same speed as my firewall can. So just buying a wiif pcie card and making it act as an ap inside the mini pc not only i dont save money but i gain speed too. If someone of you has ever run openwrt can you make a wifi ap interface easily inside a virrtual environmnent because many have told me that its not suggested.
Uh. You will not get anything near 2.5 Gbps over wifi. Virtualized AP - yeah, that will completely rock with with mini-PCIe card sitting inside some machine inside a rack, guarantees excellent wifi coverage over extensive areas. This debate is getting increasingly absurd. :o ::)
Quote from: doktornotor on July 18, 2024, 07:29:17 PM
Uh. You will not get anything near 2.5 Gbps over wifi. This debate is getting increasingly absurd.
What do you mean? There are loads of over 2.4 gbps wifi cards routers and even aps. I dont get what you mean.
Quote from: Marinoz on July 18, 2024, 07:32:14 PM
What do you mean? There are loads of over 2.4 gbps wifi cards routers and even aps. I dont get what you mean.
Yeah, plenty of those routers with those nonsensical marketing figures that that aggregate 2G and 5G theoretical throuput with absurd channel width settings and MIMO configurations not available on 99%+ of clients and not usable due to environment and interference.
Get one of them and run some iperf tests. LOL.
2.4 GHz - not 2.4 Gbps ...
Quote from: Patrick M. Hausen on July 18, 2024, 07:37:00 PM
2.4 GHz - not 2.4 Gbps ...
Ohhhh damn. Thats what yall thought didnt you. No i actually meant 2.4 gbps as of 2400 mbps wireless as of 2400 mbits per second my man. I want dual band or triband if yall ask about frequency but no lol i didnt mean 2.4 ghz
OK, WiFi 6 theoretically can do that - granted.
But fact is - there is no card that will turn your OPNsense into an AP capable of that. There are hardly any cards that work as an AP at all. OPNsense and FreeBSD have poor support for infrastructure mode, period.
If you insist on turning your mini PC into an AP instead of just buying an AP, most probably the best path is to switch from OPNsense to OpenWRT.
Quote from: Patrick M. Hausen on July 18, 2024, 09:26:22 PM
OK, WiFi 6 theoretically can do that - granted.
But fact is - there is no card that will turn your OPNsense into an AP capable of that. There are hardly any cards that work as an AP at all. OPNsense and FreeBSD have poor support for infrastructure mode, period.
If you insist on turning your mini PC into an AP instead of just buying an AP, most probably the best path is to switch from OPNsense to OpenWRT.
OR have them both. One as firewall (opn) and the other as wifi ap
But why build an AP from a mini PC when you can have a cheaper and more reliable AP from a reputable vendor?
The hAP-ax2 is less then 100 $/€ and they have a "light" version that's less than 60 €/$. I would not want to waste my time trying to build an AP from scratch, but you do you.
And again: Mikrotik is far from the only choice.
Quote from: Patrick M. Hausen on July 18, 2024, 10:05:15 PM
But why build an AP from a mini PC when you can have a cheaper and more reliable AP from a reputable vendor?
The hAP-ax2 is less then 100 $/€ and they have a "light" version that's less than 60 €/$. I would not want to waste my time trying to build an AP from scratch, but you do you.
And again: Mikrotik is far from the only choice.
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP). Wifi cards offer these speeds at really low prices to be honest. check mt7916npd asiarf for example.Its supported for ap by openwrt. I got wifi 6 over 2.4 gbps on 5ghz band and its price is 40 euros and with transportation fees its 60!edit: forgot the attachment lol
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 12:43:06 PM
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP).
Yeah, you will NOT get that. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: doktornotor on July 19, 2024, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 12:43:06 PM
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP).
Yeah, you will NOT get that. ;D ;D ;D
why not? what do you mean my man?
it's feasible on paper, at best...
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: doktornotor on July 19, 2024, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 12:43:06 PM
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP).
Yeah, you will NOT get that. ;D ;D ;D
why not? what do you mean my man?
Theory vrs real-world application. Have a look for example https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/realistic-speeds-wi-fi-5-and-wi-fi-6
Your requirement of over 2.4 Gbps wireless bandwidth and your insistence on achieving it via a consumer Wifi card being put in AP mode is what is making people telling you that is not yet possible to see a way to achieve it.
And this is for the practical side of the hardware.
Then it comes to where you've been told various times that (and I quote) :
"But fact is - there is no card that will turn your OPNsense into an AP capable of that. There are hardly any cards that work as an AP at all. OPNsense and FreeBSD have poor support for infrastructure mode, period."
So OPN or not, you can't reach your bandwidth target with a cheap card you want to use.
Then I assume you will be using OPN + OpenWRT somehow (quote) :
"OR have them both. One as firewall (opn) and the other as wifi ap"
Let us know how it goes.
Quote from: cookiemonster on July 19, 2024, 05:27:52 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: doktornotor on July 19, 2024, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 12:43:06 PM
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP).
Yeah, you will NOT get that. ;D ;D ;D
why not? what do you mean my man?
Theory vrs real-world application. Have a look for example https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/realistic-speeds-wi-fi-5-and-wi-fi-6
Your requirement of over 2.4 Gbps wireless bandwidth and your insistence on achieving it via a consumer Wifi card being put in AP mode is what is making people telling you that is not yet possible to see a way to achieve it.
And this is for the practical side of the hardware.
Then it comes to where you've been told various times that (and I quote) :
"But fact is - there is no card that will turn your OPNsense into an AP capable of that. There are hardly any cards that work as an AP at all. OPNsense and FreeBSD have poor support for infrastructure mode, period."
So OPN or not, you can't reach your bandwidth target with a cheap card you want to use.
Then I assume you will be using OPN + OpenWRT somehow (quote) :
"OR have them both. One as firewall (opn) and the other as wifi ap"
Let us know how it goes.
2021 article?
I would trust what they have said, again I've tried and failed so I'm just at the point where it won't work for me or I might be doing it for some odd cases I have once in a while. I bought a cheap GLi-net router for those odd cases, which is not at all wifi6 as I don't need that kind of speed.
If you want to challenge their advice, you are going to need to build it and show us that it can be done. Yes you are right in that a 2021 paper on wifi6 is probably not current, but I'd guess it also hasn't changed a huge amount as we do need to stick to standards. And every single device beyond the first is going to pull down those speeds, the airwaves are shared.
Quote from: cookiemonster on July 19, 2024, 05:27:52 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: doktornotor on July 19, 2024, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Marinoz on July 19, 2024, 12:43:06 PM
thats why (see attachemnt). I need OVER 2.4 Gbps (not to be confused with 2.4ghz i need 2400 mbits per second) on the 5ghz band (ON ONE BAND NOT THE SUM UP).
Yeah, you will NOT get that. ;D ;D ;D
why not? what do you mean my man?
Theory vrs real-world application. Have a look for example https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/realistic-speeds-wi-fi-5-and-wi-fi-6
Your requirement of over 2.4 Gbps wireless bandwidth and your insistence on achieving it via a consumer Wifi card being put in AP mode is what is making people telling you that is not yet possible to see a way to achieve it.
And this is for the practical side of the hardware.
Then it comes to where you've been told various times that (and I quote) :
"But fact is - there is no card that will turn your OPNsense into an AP capable of that. There are hardly any cards that work as an AP at all. OPNsense and FreeBSD have poor support for infrastructure mode, period."
So OPN or not, you can't reach your bandwidth target with a cheap card you want to use.
Then I assume you will be using OPN + OpenWRT somehow (quote) :
"OR have them both. One as firewall (opn) and the other as wifi ap"
Let us know how it goes.
FINALLY someone that gets it. As opnsense doesnt work with pcie cards i will buy the 3000mbps card and run opnse as firewall and openwrt as ap along in proxmox!!!!!! thanks coockie you are always the best edit: mt7916 asia rf npd is wifi 6e so yeah :)
What could possibly go wrong? ::)
Wow, high-end scientific project! Keep us updated how things go...
100% sure it's the perfect hardware vendor for your project?
Quote from: Patrick M. Hausen on July 19, 2024, 11:50:36 PM
What could possibly go wrong? ::)
why dont you enligthen me and tell me what could possibly go wrong?
Quote from: chemlud on July 20, 2024, 03:26:47 PM
Wow, high-end scientific project! Keep us updated how things go...
100% sure it's the perfect hardware vendor for your project?
cant tell if thats sarcasm or not... :-\
You won't be able to build a 2400 Mbit/s net throughput WiFi router from a scrap PC and some China WiFi card. But go ahead and try. It will hopefully be instructive.
I prefer to use a real AP.
Quote from: Patrick M. Hausen on July 21, 2024, 12:50:36 AM
You won't be able to build a 2400 Mbit/s net throughput WiFi router from a scrap PC and some China WiFi card. But go ahead and try. It will hopefully be instructive.
I prefer to use a real AP.
alright alright i will buy an ap but is there an ap with symmetrical speeds on lan and wlan ? preferably under 200 euros