Hello ZenArmor team,
Reading thru several posts, your documentation, road-map, there is set a target to have ZenArmor support multicore/thread architectures. This topic goes for quiet some time now, the date of delivery of this essential feature is always moved.
In your H/W sizing docs is written Q1, 2024 which is long past due. It was moved to Q2, and then in some forum post is randomly mentioned Q3/4.
I think and many will too, having support for multicore is more essential than SASE and other features...
Why?
Because your product is designed to be implemented on LAN side. Due to the fact that ZenArmor is resource heavy and runs only one core, it creates a bottleneck for InterVlan routing. As the H/W throughput sizing actually limits the backplane.
A lot of users and customer may have limited WAN BW, however the story for LAN is completely different we can scale up to 10G connections for Intranet networks.
Can you please state and provide firm date when this multicore support will arrive and deliver it.
Regards,
S.
You cannot force them to make it ready before it's ready.
But business-wise it is a dumb decision to handle other less important security stuff, rather than boosting the bandwidth performance of Zenarmor 4 times or 8 times or how many cores you have.
Personally, I have no need of going above Gigabit internet in the coming five years, but many businesses do.
You are bit missing the point I am trying to make.
This is not about forcing, but uphold the commitment they made. They did the commitment by setting the target on their Road-Map. But so far its always postponed.
https://www.zenarmor.com/roadmap
QuoteMid-term - Multi-core scalability
Mid term: 6-12 Months
This was already missed by quiet by margin of time.
Business-wise having proper multi-core support gives sense, because this will open the product to more customers and users that doesn't have a single CORE CPU strong enough to run at least 1G throughput InterVLan or their Speed of WAN with Zenarmor.
QuotePersonally, I have no need of going above Gigabit internet in the coming five years, but many businesses do.
Another point as I mentioned, this is not only about "Internet Speed" but about throughput you are able to achieve between two different LAN networks - InterVLAN.
Regards,
S.
Dear Fellow Zenarmor Users,
We had to change multi-core support priority at the beginning of this year for the critical SSE and TLS inspection features. The team is started to work for multicore support and planning to ship at the en of the year. Many thanks to all for your patience and cooperation.
Quote from: sy on June 30, 2024, 10:58:03 AM
Dear Fellow Zenarmor Users,
We had to change multi-core support priority at the beginning of this year for the critical SSE and TLS inspection features. The team is started to work for multicore support and planning to ship at the en of the year. Many thanks to all for your patience and cooperation.
Sy, thank you for replying back on this topic, much appreciated.
I am glad to hear you plan to ship it end of Q4 2024. If you and ZenArmor team agree please lets use this thread to track the progress or possible (hopefully not) delays in regards of the multi-core feature.
In any case if possible let us know any news around it.
Regards,
S.
Is there a way to run beta versions of Zenarmor in OPNsense? Might be worth configuring a different repo for those of us that might be willing to try.
Hi,
The team is working on the repo change feature. It will be available to change it on UI. For now, we can share when the multicore support feature is in beta version with volunteer testers.
Great, I don't want an Alpha version, but by Beta it would probably be stable enough for me to put on my production system and really run it.
If possible, just give us an "easy" way to roll back to the production version during testing.
I know that OPNsense hardware is AMD based, but a lot of us are Intel based, if it comes down to one or the other, just let us know which one is ready for testing. I might be able to work up one of my AMD processor test machines and put it back into production.
And if it matters, I'm going to be on OPN Business by the time you get a beta ready, specifically (unless it doesn't work well enough) an Intel E3-1230v5 which isn't exactly very powerful, but still good solid hardware on a Supermicro X11 board. I'm only gigabit though, so not much of a test other than my speed should improve a little and maybe I can see the cores doing different work.
Sounds very good, if there would be a possibility for a Beta and a seamless rollback back to Prod I would definitely enroll to test out features such as multicore support.
Regards,
S.
So looks like again delayed...
Quote from: IHK on September 23, 2024, 08:42:38 AM
Zenarmor multi-core support is expected to arrive in Q2 of 2025, you can follow the updates.
ZA team,
When you once again delay it, can you at least communicate better the updates and status of this feature? For example using this topic that is specifically designed for it, rather than randomly mentioning it across random posts?
This feature is promised for years now, and always delayed and lets be honest the communication in regards of it is not the best upmost disappointing.
Regards,
S.
Multi-core year 2040 ( Business )
New functions ( mostly SSE - SASE )
Quote from: Seimus on July 02, 2024, 07:53:50 PM
...if there would be a possibility for a Beta and a seamless rollback back to Prod...
Snapshots are available on ZFS :)
Sorry for the inconvenience, but we had to prioritize working on other features.
hi,
are there any news aboute the multicore/thread feature?
greetings
SASE makes money, multicore does not (not directly). As much as I want multicore, it will have to wait. My network is small enough and I have enough processor that it's not an issue for me right now, and I actually forgot about it until these posts refreshed the discussion.
Hi,
The multicore support is in developmentstage and we plan to ship it with version 2.1 in July.
Quote from: sy on April 11, 2025, 05:50:37 PMThe multicore support is in developmentstage and we plan to ship it with version 2.1 in July.
(https://media.tenor.com/f3_kfNdFAb0AAAAM/leonardo-dicaprio-clapping.gif)
thanks for the update!
Quote from: sy on April 11, 2025, 05:50:37 PMHi,
The multicore support is in developmentstage and we plan to ship it with version 2.1 in July.
Those are some great news. Also from what I picked up the 2.1 release will be pretty big.
Looking forward for it.
That will be very nice on lower powered processors that often have a lower clock rate!
Quote from: Greg_E on April 14, 2025, 03:58:20 PMThat will be very nice on lower powered processors that often have a lower clock rate!
My LAGGs will be happy to reach its full potential.
Regards,
S.
I just canceled my Zenarmor subscription. I reviewed the Zenarmor documentation and multi core support is behind a paywall. Apparently, you need a a more comprehensive license for multi core support? CPU's have been multi core for several years. This support should be free.
Apparently, you need a business license or higher for multi core support. This is laughable. In this day and age, charging for multi core support, seriously? Modern CPU's have had multiple cores for years. What software company charges for multi core support? NONE, except for Zenarmor you need to revisit your strategy. Multi core support is nothing novel or innovative. All modern software applications support it.
Quote from: Cljackhammer on April 16, 2025, 12:59:25 PMApparently, you need a business license or higher for multi core support. This is laughable. In this day and age, charging for multi core support, seriously? Modern CPU's have had multiple cores for years. What software company charges for multi core support? NONE, except for Zenarmor you need to revisit your strategy. Multi core support is nothing novel or innovative. All modern software applications support it.
what. the whole reason i want multi-core support is so i can downgrade my home hardware to lower TDP cpu... ugh
Quote from: dirtyfreebooter on April 16, 2025, 03:39:24 PMQuote from: Cljackhammer on April 16, 2025, 12:59:25 PMApparently, you need a business license or higher for multi core support. This is laughable. In this day and age, charging for multi core support, seriously? Modern CPU's have had multiple cores for years. What software company charges for multi core support? NONE, except for Zenarmor you need to revisit your strategy. Multi core support is nothing novel or innovative. All modern software applications support it.
what. the whole reason i want multi-core support is so i can downgrade my home hardware to lower TDP cpu... ugh
You can still do it, but you will end to purchase I believe a business or higher license. Multi core won't be supported on home versions. Again, there is NO software company out there that charges for multi core support. Most companies develop there programs to support multiple cores, free of charge.
Zenarmor on the other hand releases software that doesn't support multiple cores and then releases it as a feature that must be paid for. This my friend is comical and probably the reason why no Zenarmor employees have responded to this thread. Because they know it's ludicrous. Could you imagine if Microsoft or Google required a multi core license? Microsoft Word - multi core edition.
What about this. What if Opnsense put receive side scaling (RSS) behind a paywall. For example you need to purchase Opnsense business edition to enable RSS. LOL
Since the feature isn't out yet, can we be certain this is going to be a paid feature?
Seems like a lot of work to create two different versions of the software to split the feature. Not trying to defend them, but this just doesn't seem logical unless they are going to turn off the free version.
Quote from: Greg_E on April 22, 2025, 03:45:28 PMSince the feature isn't out yet, can we be certain this is going to be a paid feature?
Seems like a lot of work to create two different versions of the software to split the feature. Not trying to defend them, but this just doesn't seem logical unless they are going to turn off the free version.
That is what their roadmap seems to suggest - SSE, ZTNA, SASE, Business plans only...rather than 'All Plans' which includes free and home, or 'All paid plans' which would include home but not free.
Of course, easily clarified by a member of the Sunny Valley team that contribute to the forum.
https://www.zenarmor.com/roadmap
But why? I really love the Zenarmor tool and have participated in helping it succeed any way I can, but locking multi-core behind a paywall is absurd. I've paid for the home subscription since it's been available. If this gets pay walled I'm out. Already annoyed at limited policies in the home version.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F1oqqbg.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=0fdb9b3e891daed2b60610e53cafc9d22e55f56c9cf2041f1f527796d4c22cbe)
I looked at the roadmap too, hoping this is an oversight.
But the silence kind of tells the story, they are usually very quick to reply to these posts. That said, I don't see any posts newer than April 18.
No response because this capability is indeed behind a pay wall. Again, I have not seen a software company charge for multicore support. There absolutely nothing novel with multi-core support. It should be free.
Just look how much Oracle charges per core... ROFLMAO...
Honestly you can not compare Oracle to ZA, Oracle is literary keeping companies hostage due to their own fault.
Anyway,
If its really true, that multi-core support is behind a paywall than I am personally done with ZA and not going to renew my licenses/subs.
When I discussed the payed subscriptions with ZA sales few years ago, it was told that the multi-core support will come that year (I was already skeptic then), it didn't. There was no mention that such a base feature will be behind a higher tier paywall.
Honestly,
1. This is just anti-consumer as much as possible
2. Not only that ZA already creates a bottleneck for Intranet communication, now there is a possibility that you have to pay extra even if your HW is totally capable without ZA
3. You are literary alienating home-labers and selfhosters, that mostly help you to report, identify and tshoot BUGs
Last but not least, ZA, if you want to go the corporate way, by all means feel free. BUT DO NOT backstab the community that partially helped you and is helping you to create better product.
I hope ZA team will provide an official statement, because this is by all means a real concern.
Regards,
S.
Comparing Oracle to a packet filter? Sounds like an ZA executive. Multicore support in this day and age should be a base feature. Oracle is relic and has been around for age. I'm fairly confident that there license model was crafted during a time where multicore was a commodity. In this and ages it isn't. Smart watches have multiple cores.
Well I can see the comparison to Oracle. They and others moved a while ago to per-core licensing to extract more from customers as the core counts started multiplying and they realised customers were getting more processing from each socket. I get the reasoning.
BUT, I see it just like Seimus. Alienates the prosumers that gave you community beta testing.
Want to get big enterprises pay more for your product, of course. Want to keep your lowly homelabbers and prosumers, you should.
And I reckon you can do both. Similar to your pricing structure for free and home, make it free up to X threads/cores.
So, Oracle example was was from "A Company" and "Multicore" perspective regardless of what product performs.
Now back to ZA, I agree with you @Seimus on all counts but to be the devil's advocate here...
what's it for a company to buy a DECISO's BEEFY box and throw in the ZA and run with it for free... Yeah, I do understand the Mom'n'Pops shops should be considered home users as the restrictions in budgets'n all...
BUT! ZA has to make moola! So, from that perspective they could Cap the multi to a session rate or what not so that the grandma in Norway with 400Gbps pipe would have to cough up USD to satisfy her 8K TV. ROFL!
We may be witnessing a Broadcom moment! (vmware).
Or an IBM moment (CentOS).
Or an Oracle moment (Open Solaris).
But all of those are big, they can float through angry people dropping their licenses...
Just another example, Deciso made the OPNsense Business level cheap by comparison, their hardware competes with similar enterprise level hardware (at least what I'm looking at). And yet they still have the free open source version with really no crippling to the features like other "freeware". It might be worth making ZA cheaper to see if sales volume increases and surpasses current levels.
In the end, make your choices, my fourth example seems to be working and no body complaining. But if you decide to be like the other three, grab it and own it and be prepared for the backlash. Broadcom is taking a beating right now by all the people that used to buy a yearly license (myself included), now it's all locked up and a mess. They've lost a lot of young talent who will not be willing to use the product when they get big jobs, the old talent retires and no one is left to handle some of these massive systems. And when most companies figure out how to move away, they are gone for good (the Broadcom "squeeze all you can from it, and dump it" plan).
I understand a company needs to make money. I am therefor happy to pay for my home subscription. If multicore support won't be in the free version, ok for me. Not nice, as multicore is plain standard nowadays as you other guys correctly stated, but ok.
It won't be ok however not to include multicore in home subscription. The upper plans are too pricey for my home purposes. I really think to quit home subscription, as I do not agree with that policy.
Think twice, if I were you, I would offer multicore for free, or include in home subscriptions whatever, to get more customers. Otherwise I guess you would lose them...